1995 Atco Commdore B14 - Carb Questions

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sawleyman
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1995 Atco Commdore B14 - Carb Questions

I ended up buying a 1995 Commodore B14 yesterday -- not exactly old but a lovely, lovely example. It is in fantastic condition and came with the original receipt and service papers from the chap's father. There's no rust on it and everything has cleaned up very well. It was sold as not starting and "requiring tuning". It has been stored dry in a ventilated garage for 2 years.

I got it home and took a look at things. To begin with the gasket between the air filter housing and the carburettor was hanging only on one screw and when opening the carb up (as best I could on these modern carbs) there was debris inside. The rubber float bowl seal was broken too. I let it soak in carb cleaner overnight and it looked new when I took it out this evening. I sprayed cleaner and air through it after and let it dry. I did refit everything even with the broken float bowl seal while I await a new one.

It started on the second pull but only runs with the choke fully open (or ON). It is a little rough idling but doesn't cut out.

I think these mowers use a Tillotson carb? The one I have is identical to the picture below. I'm not familar with these carbs. A clear problem with it is that when opening up the screw at the bottom even very slightly, it pours petrol out of a small hole on the bottom. What could the problem be here? I'm not even sure how to prime/tickle the carb.

PS -- thanks to wristpin on my earlier "Scarifier or Aerator" thread. I am on the lookout for the grass rake springs online.

 

sawleyman
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Could the screw at the bottom

Could the screw at the bottom of the carb (not the bowl nut) be a drainage screw of some sort? Wondering if that "leak" is intentional!

wristpin
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Post an image of your

Post an image of your carburettor .  With a date of 1995 the carb is more likely to be a Dellorto.

sawleyman
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I'll post when I get back

I'll post when I get back home from work this afternoon. I'll put your knowledge above mine but I thought it had a "TK" emblem on the side.

wristpin
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In which case.........!    

In which case.........!     Dellorto usually have the name in full, and are identified by having a little spring loaded drain valve on the underside of the float bowl.

Mower and engine spec details on page 9.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o97xumtyim9oln2/Atco%20Commodore%20manual%2014...

sawleyman
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I've taken some pictures of

I've taken some pictures of the carb while in situ. I think it's a "TK" carb which I know little about but I'll leave the identifying to the experts.

On closer inspection the gasket on the air filter housing is distorted and the filter housing itself is damaged with a crack at the point where it joins the carb, so I am going to replace both. The gasket joining the carb onto the inlet manifold was also perishing so I've removed and cleaned the face of the manifold. Along with the float boal seal this makes 4 new parts to come. 

 

sawleyman
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I have been doing some

I have been doing some reading and Atco seemingly used the Italian Delorto carbs on the Commodore when they were introduced in about 1983, then switched to the Tilllotson ones around 1990. The last Commodores were made in about 1995 making mine a very late one.

I think it's best at this point that I get the carb gaskets found online and then put on. The search is on this evening!

wristpin
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 So it’s not a Dellorto but

 So it’s not a Dellorto but are a Tillotson and a TK ( Teikei) , as per your early post ,one and the same? 

Henno
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It is a fc-11e1a, like on the

It is a fc-11e1a, like on the picture from the beginning of this thread.

It can also be found on the early Atco Balmorals and Qualcast CPS, but then on the Tecumseh AQ148 engine. I have one leftover from a Qualcast 43 CP.

Parts can be found at JAPG, the filter housing could be more difficult. The one on the Balmoral and CPS was horizontal mounted whereas on the Commodore it is vertical, per Dellorto.

 

Regards, Henno

sawleyman
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Thank you both -- if there

Thank you both -- if there was a way of thanking on here I would do.

It seems you can still buy the carb new for £56 direct from Tillotson. That seems a bit drastic at this stage so I have e-mailed them asking if they sell any spare parts for it including gaskets. I have also e-mailed JAPG as I can only see a couple of spares on their site.

Until I get anywhere with that I won't attempt any more work on it. Will post some pictures if anyone is interested in the meantime. Until then I'll be using the B14 Deluxe I have from the '60s. 

 

wristpin
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Try Rowena Motors
Henno
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Couldn't past the link on the

Couldn't past the link on the phone, so now behind the PC:

On this page you an find the O-rings, gasket's for the TK marked Tillotson carb: https://www.japgmowers.co.uk/atco-qualcast-webb-a114-aluminium-114cc-eng...

Just read carefully, the page contains Dellorto and Tillotson parts...!

I also have a PDF of the carburator, it is probably one of wristpins uploads, maybe I can mail it to you? Or try this link: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AqMo5F0Orx73x0l4SFo5g4GWk792?e=rEBjNy

 

Regards, Henno

sawleyman
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Thanks wristpin -- I've

Thanks wristpin -- I've dropped Rowenmotors an e-mail. That's 3 firms waiting to come back to me now.

Henno -- I used the Japgmowers site and filtered specifically to Atco Commodore but there were only 3 parts listed. Your link does show more and I'm wondering if the part in the below link is a replacement for the gaskets I'm in need of. I have e-mailed them asking.

https://www.japgmowers.co.uk/inlet-manifold-gasket-qualcast-30-35s-43s-4...

I do have an exploded parts diagram of the carb (inside the spare parts reference guide included with the ,mower) but it doesn't list the make of the carb. The part numbers it refers to also aren't recognised anywhere. It must have been printed very close to the date we changed dialling codes too as it lists 0332 for Derby not the current 01332.

 

 

Henno
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The confusion here is that

The confusion here is that the Tillotson carburettor is not frequently seen on the Commodore series. So you have to go to other series as well, like the Balmoral, which used the Tillotson in the first couple of years. They probably ran out of Dellorto's on the end of the Commodore while developing the Balmoral, and thought, well chuck that carb on there, just they did with paint.... (different shades of green over series of Commodores, a nuisance.  

I don't know if Rowenmotors can help you, the Tillotson carbs on their site are mostly seen on motorcycles and karts, they are non-float types. The fc-11e1a is pretty special for mowers and garden equipement.

Anyway, in my opinion you need this gasket between the carb en de manifold to the engine:

https://www.japgmowers.co.uk/carb-to-intake-manifold-gasket-tk-carburett...

Because it also seals of the channel that goes over the top of the inlet to the engine, see https://tillotson.ie/shop/fc11e1a-carburetor/

And you need this one for the Carb - filter side: https://www.japgmowers.co.uk/carb-to-filter-holder-intake-gasket-tk-carb...

 

 

Regards, Henno

Chris G
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With some decent gasket sheet

With some decent gasket sheet material, patience and a scalpel, I have made my own gaskets for the throttle bodies.

I have what looks like one of those exact same TK carbs that came off a punch 43 engine, if you want it let me know and I will dig it out and take some pics

sawleyman
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Henno - that's a very good

Henno - that's a very good point actually regarding the gaskets. Thank you for the suggestion.

This is a shot of my carb on the air intake side:along with the gasket you have suggested. The profile of the gasket seems to match that of the carb so it would appear to be the correct replacement.

  

 

EDIT - I can now see how the second gasket you suggested would fit the profile of the inlet manifold side of the carb. I've highlighted the bit at the top which matches the profile.

sawleyman
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Thanks also Chris G. If it

Thanks also Chris G. If it doesn't work out with the ones from JAPG then I will let you know.

I have made gaskets before. I used to own a Hillman Super Minx and made a gasket for the Zenith 34IV (??) that was on that.

Henno
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Yep, those gaskets are the

Yep, those gaskets are the correct ones.

Those openings at the air intake side should not be blocked, as with the engine side they should be covered, hens fuel running through them. In your first post you described that you needed to keep the choke on, this points obviously to a blockage, old fuel somewhere in the carb. You need lots of carb cleaner for that, sometimes spread over days, maybe combined with a session in a ultrasonic bath.

Preventing a gummed up carb in te future can be achieved by using better fuel, like Aspen 4 (Alkylate Petrol), but that is a personal preference and you must be willing to pay the price.

Did you get any results on the airfilter housing? As I said before, that could be far more difficult to replace. Does it have a type or number on it? Maybe post some pictures of it.

Regards, Henno

Chris G
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Hello Sawley, found it if you

Hello Sawley, found it if you need it! In a bit of a state externally but pretty clean inside, not sure if visible in the pics but the failing air filter gasket was shored up with blu tak :-) seen gaskets from cereal packets but thats a new one on me.

Lots cooking in the shed tonight so gave it a seeing to while doing other stuff, stiff nylon brush biffing, several ultrasonic baths in hot ipa solution, striped down a bit but was quite clean, float pin and needle looked and worked perfect so left those. Serious air lining after but ipa leaves things really dry, evaporates the moisture.

Yours or anyone else for postage, I will never use it but hate throwing things away.

 

sawleyman
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Chris that's excellent work

Chris that's excellent work you have done there. If you genuinely don't have a use for it I would be very grateful for it. Please send me a message -- what you want for it plus postage costs. I'd be happy to give it a go on my Commodore (which I have since found out is actually a 1994 model, but was purchased in 1995). I will post come general pictures tomorrow of the mower. I did find myself using Autoglym polish on her earlier this evening...

Regarding gaskets, my dad once told me they used to use the cardboard from cigarette packets or cereal boxes! Apparently the cigarette paper was also good in the absence of a feeler gauge!

 

sawleyman
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I've come to the conclusion

I've come to the conclusion that the gaskets that came with the mower are incorrect. This confuses me as the mower has been serviced and cleaned regularly. I re-looked at the air filter side of the carb and the gasket that was in situ there and there is clear evidence that the gasket was blocking 3 holes as Henno pointed out. Something has been trying to get out or through those openings and the gasket was blocking them.

JAPG sent out the gaskets to me yesterday so I'll look out for them either tomorrow or Monday. 

Henno
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That carb looked like it came

That carb looked like it came from under de dung heap. Stunning work there Chris!

Regards, Henno

Henno
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Yep, that one could cause

Yep, that one could cause some blockage and resulting "false" air into the carb's working. Together with Chris's carb this should be solvable! Make some more pictures of the B14 and post them here!

I just restored a B14 which will be going back to its previous owner (I will post some pictures in a couple of days), so Iam curious about yours!

Regards, Henno

sawleyman
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Update on the mower... the

Update on the mower... the new gaskets arrived today and were fitted earlier this afternoon. I also replaced the spark plug and set the gap. The previous was not old but was full of carbon depositing.

Results were noticeable straight away. The idle tickover is clockwork -- smooth, steady and quiet. I had her running a good 5-10 minutes and in checking the state of the plug after all was fine. 

I do have one issue though. When I was refitting the carb the linkage wire to the throttle control pinged off and I can't find it! I had to improvise with a bit of 2.5mm copper wire. This works but when reducing revs the throttle control on the carb sticks and doesn't return fully home to the stop screw. Therefore if I want a truly slow idle I have to push the control by hand. I've put a short video of this on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDnnDFx7vMQ

Some general shots below without grassbox (and in between the rain!!). I have the original receipt showing £555 with trade in.

 

 

 

Henno
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That looks very mint indeed..

That looks very mint indeed... Respraying the exhaust and exhaust guard with engine paint and repainting the cylinder would make it a showroom model.

Regarding the throttle leaver not returning, was that problem also there with the original linkage? If so then it could be that the throttle return spring that sits under the leaver is lame or somebody did not assemble is well....

Regards, Henno

sawleyman
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Thanks for the idea I like it

Thanks for the idea I like it -- I think a metallic silver or gold would look good for the exhaust components.

I think you're right with the hunch on the spring. I don't know the age of it but after a few tests it seems to lack tension. I've ordered a new spring from JAPG. Looks a fiddly job to replace the spring but I'll have a look one evening in the week.

Thanks again for your help and everyone on here. Great to know there is a community of like-minded people with a wealth of knowledge and experience to share.

 

Chris G
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On the gaskets, it appears

On the gaskets, it appears that the same one with no shaping around the holes between the air filer was installed on the one I have, makes you wonder how critical then?

Seeing the pictures posted I had a bit of a go, not too tricky really, wouldn't get any prises but they would seal. I use light oil to get an impression, and hollow punch set is a must as well as decent scissors and scalpel.

You didn't reply to my PM on the carb so guessing that the fiver postage broke it :-) joking aside looks like you're sorted so no worries.

  

sawleyman
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Chris -- really sorry I've

Chris -- really sorry I've not seen your message. I've not sent them on here before being new and I was expecting an e-mail notification to let me know if you'd sent anything. Where do you share messages on here? I'm impressed with your work on the gasket -- certainly better than my cardboard creation while I was waiting the new ones!

When I find your message I can respond to you. I'll keep looking!

sawleyman
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For anybody interested, I

For anybody interested, I have finally got the mower running and cutting well. I'm still awaiting the throttle return spring which will make de-acceleration smoother, but despite that all is well. It's on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts-pGX46Aoc

Thanks all for your help on here it is greatly appreciated. You're a top bunch of people with lots of knowledge.