Aspera Tecumseh recoil starter
Hi all. Just to start a new thread in a long standing saga with an old Tecumseh/ Aspera engined bitsa mower. It's a rotary with a Mountfield Body and Atco blade arrangement, it came into my possession by a quirk of fate as someone who used to look after my Mother-in-Laws garden acquired this mower from somewhere, then moved to Scotland and left it behind.
Anyway, over the past 2 years I have stripped this engine down, modified it slightly and had it running a few times. Now, I have a recoil starter which was purchased new as the old one stopped, well... recoiling. I now have had to strip this down (after much effort to get the centre screw out), as it also has stopped recoiling.I have found the spring inside has broken, the last 2 or so inches on the outside has snapped so it is not properly anchored to the housing is was in, I also think the retaining 'C' shaped piece which is supposed to hold the spring in place in the centre is not big enough, it is only 1/2 as tall as the spring is wide and I think the spring can move itsself off this location and stop being tight enough to recoil the chord every time it's pulled. I could be wrong but it's the impression I get.
Anyway, if anyone has come across this sort of thing before please leave a message. I'll have some images up over the next few days so you can see what i'm babbling on about.
I must add, once I get this issue sorted (somehow) the machine does work quite well, despite being a bit of a difficult starter and I have found, over my time posting and being in direct communication with people on here, the engine is probably more than 50 years old. Just thought I'd add to put you all in the picture.
Thanks all.
J Morris.
All. Just to add to yesterdays input, I've uploaded some images to better illustrate what I was on about. hope it helps.
Forums
Hello Wristpin. I apologize
Hello Wristpin. I apologize for it being a while since I came to the post reply you put up here back in October. I have,since our last contact, purchased a new spring, the other one had cracked which is why it didn't work. I have watched a video by a tech guy on YouTube (he is American but seems to specialize in Tecumseh type engines). I've set the recoil as directed in the video so it should be OK now. I get the advice you gave about going over all the engine again, I have had a good look around and all seems fine. I have noted I have to set the points almost to the end of their travel to get the timing right but I'm hoping it can run, when I try it. Getting it started is still an issue, though. If you view the images I have uploaded, you'll see a certain incompatibility between the old cup and new. If I try and sit the new cup (which is the correct I/D to accommodate the new recoil pawl length) into the old cup it sits proud and does not let you put the recoil starter on the machine in any way that it will work. The old cup, which was on the machine when I acquired it, has the correct plate with holes in which sits neatly on top of the flywheel. The new cup is totally different and would not engage with the flywheel. So, I'm now sort of stuck again as I have a machine and a pull starter which do not match, the solution I got is not compatible and I therefore seem to have come to a halt in the quest to get a fully functional machine. Can anyone help??
My suggestion of checking was
My suggestion of checking was supposed to imply a bit more than having "a good look round". Knowing that you have replaced the carburettor due to damaging the original, made up throttle / choke /governor links to replace missing or incompatible items, replaced flywheel, the original being damaged during removal and had a mower shop replace the entire ignition stator, I was suggesting that everything be physically checked for correct clearances and adjustments etc - not just a look!
The fact that you have had "to set the points almost to the end of their travel" ( I presume that you are referring to the complete stator assembly and not the points which should be set to 20thou)? - makes me suspicious about the timing. However with a possibly mis-matched stator and flywheel, may be not. You will remember that when you were suspicious about the stator that the mower shop had fitted, you sent it to me for testing and that it checked out ok and that I fitted it to a "slave " engine and had it running, so that should be OK. Have you actually checked the contact breaker points opening against the specified amount of piston travel before top dead centre?
Starters. The multi tooth cast alloy cup is the early design and went with a recoil assembly with a pawl retainer diameter to suit and would have located correctly on an early flywheel (possibly the one that you broke? The later pressed steel cup with fewer teeth should match the currently available recoil units but may not sit comfortably on your replacement flywheel . Not an insurmountable problem , I would think.
A couple of your images show the later cup "nested" inside the older cast original - I presume that this is just to illustrate the difference size and that you've not been attempting to assemble them in that fashion? If you have a later pattern recoil unit (still available) it should be compatible with the correct later pressed steel cup - are you saying that it is not?
Edit
YouTube videos
Be careful and selective. Recently saw one on setting Tecumseh side valve (L head) valve gaps which totally ignored the risk of getting them wrong due to the action of the Automatic Compression Release.
One of your problems is that
One of your problems is that you are trying to compare your Aspera engine with a Tecumseh one and it isn't really anything to do with Tecumseh. Aspera engines were built under licence in Italy by a Fiat offshoot, yes the engines were based on Tecumseh ones, but there were lots of differences, ignition, starters and carburetors amongst them. You have a Aspera LAV30 or 35 (most likely a 35) and you need to find parts to fit this. The starter and cup you have obtained, appear to be for the later Tecnamotor engines, these also used a different flywheel. You may be able to adapt the cup to fit the flywheel, but it will take some thought, if the cups protrudes slightly, this isn't really a problem, just space the starter with washers.
Hello Wristpin. Thanks for
Hello Wristpin. Thanks for the reply and apologies for not coming to the forum to answer for a while. Time management is a problem for me at the moment as I have 10 working days and more to do every weekend than I have time for.
Anyway, to reply to your points. Yes, I understand about giving the engine a full inspection, this will be done when I have a full day to concentrate on,which I have not had for a number of Months due to the same reasons stated above. The comment regarding the points says I should have given more information. Your comments are correct, I ws referring to the travel of the whole setup not just the points. When I give the engine a good look over I will check the points gap with my feeler gauges. I will also re inspect the points opening in relation to the piston movement. The cup issue. I have the old one still in the starter head as it sits on the flywheel I have, which works correctly and fits as the old one did, before it broke. The pattern is the same on the top of the flywheel as the old pone was so the 2 items fit together just as the old pairing did. The new cup, as pictured, does need modifying but the pawls on the new recoil I have do meet the I/D of the new cup so they work together. I need to work out how to get the 2 cups to be positively engaged so I can transfer the rotation from the recoil to the engine to turn over and start it.This is a slight problem as I'm not really sure how to do it or what to use. I would prefer to find an older recoil starter which would engage with the old cup but I have searched a number of times but I have not found anything, trying different search names Tecumseh,Tecnamotor, Aspera. You say the difference in the cups is not insurmountable but it's stumped me a little so far.
Your input on this could be very useful.
Thanks for now
J M
Hello Hortimech. Many thanks
Hello Hortimech. Many thanks for your input. I do understand what engine I have and how old it probably is. There is a Tecnamotor badge on the front of it and your guess of it being an LAV35 is probably correct. Because of it's age it is a bit of a rarity as far as finding suitable parts are concerned. I have searched under the Aspera heading but, short of looking at a pile of rust, in most cases, I don't seem to have found the right parts that match what I have so the items I have acquired are a reluctant compromise, hens the miss match of sizes etc and my current difficulty with a new recoil which has shorter pawls which do not engage with the cup I have which was matched to the old recoil which gave up the ghost, I think the spring broke and t was not as accessible as the new recoil, the centre seemed to have a riveted top not screws to secure together. I will take another look as things do change quite a bit over time but I don't hold much hope of getting all I would like to find. The modification to get the 2 cups to positively engage so I can be certain of at least having a chance of starting the engine is proving a bit of a headache. I have thought of 1 way but need some time to experiment and try before I'm certain if it's got legs or not, something which I just have not had for Months now. If you have any thought on this point I'd appreciate the input.
Thanks for now
JM
Hi all. Just to show this
Hi all. Just to show this engine runs, I got it started today and filmed a short video while it was running, you can find it here:
I know it looks strange but, because I have not yet got a workable solution to the new recoil starter fitting to the old cup (I'm thinking of having a ring made which would reduce the I/D by 7mm or so as the difference between the pawl reach and the I/D of the original cup, which is still on the machine is only 4mm!).
If you are wondering how I got it started, you will be horrified to know I used and electric drill, fitted with a suitable long socket extension and socket to drive the crank around from the top. I saw someone on Youtube do the same and, though I know it's wrong, I tried it and, as you see, it worked.
Wonder if I could convert to electric start????
Just a thought.
JM
Good that you've got it going
Good that you've got it going but can't understand your issue with starters . Suitable recoil units are available on that auction site from a seller in Guernsey for around £15 and there was a matching new old stock genuine Tecumseh cup on the same site which sold for £1.50 a week ago.
As for converting to electric start, not as simple as it sounds, you would need a flywheel with a ring gear, starter motor, battery and switching system. Then of course the crankcase is unlikely to have the mounting points for the starter - it's a non starter !
There is previous form on
There is previous form on your method of starting - Frank Whittle's early jet engine testbeds were started off an Austin 7 donkey engine with a four-foot length of thick rubber between the gearbox and the jet's spindle! Known apparently as the "elephant tool"...
Adrian
How about a Coffman starter
How about a Coffman starter as used on piston engined aircraft - and Field Marshall tractors!
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=r…
Hi Wristpin. By 'that auction
Hi Wristpin. By 'that auction site' you mean E-Bay? I'll have to take a look. Do I search for Aspera or Tecumseh or Tecnamotor? I'll pop over now and take a look. Must be just bad timing as I have visited some times and found nothing. Not much time to squeeze all the stuff in. anyway, yes, I'm really glad to get it running and it seems quite smooth, to say it's been stood for some time. I'll keep plugging away until I find what I need to complete. it's been a great adventure so far!
I have experience of starting a Marshall tractor using a cartridge, Used to work in Farming and a guy had one not far from a place I worked. Got to drive it a few times, prefer an MF 35 though!
JM
Hello Adrian. Yes, I have
Hello Adrian. Yes, I have heard of that method as well. I used to know a guy who drove an old Cat D9 dozer, which had to be started using a donkey engine. I remember it taking almost 3 1/2 minutes to get it started on a very cold winter day but once up and running it never missed a beat all day, pulling a scraper.
Thanks for the memory jog!
JM
I've sent you a private
I've sent you a private message with some pix of a stripped down genuine Tecumseh starter.
To have two recoil units on the same engine that have stopped recoiling suggests to me that it is the "difficult starting" of your engine that is killing the starters. Knowing from your previous posts the various traumas that you have experienced I cant help but think that you possibly still have a number of areas that are not quite right resulting in the cumulative poor starting issue. During the winter period it's probably time to go back over, timing, valves, choke operation and gasket integrity etc and get everything spot on.
While reassembling the starter that I stripped to photograph for you I was reminded that a frequent cause of starter failure is incorrect tensioning of the spring and rope. When pulling the rope out as far as it will go he spring should not be fully tensioned and coil bound. That is to say that further rotation of the pulley should be stopped by the fully unwound rope and not the fully wound spring. If there is still rope on the pulley when the spring has gone tight it will be subjected to continuous shock loads - possibly the reason that you have a broken spring now. Ideally the rope length should be such that you neither pull it right out against its knot in the pulley nor create a coil bound spring.