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Collection, Preservation and Display of Old Lawn Mowers

ATCO De Luxe B14 jubilee model

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I'm a complete mower novice. Just bought the mower shown below on a bit of a whim, it didn't cost me much. Must admit I'd assumed it was older and didn't notice the Jubilee decal until I was back home, so am a bit disappointed but hopefully it will become a useful tool if not the vintage piece I'd hoped for. It starts well and the blades spin but there's no drive. It's missing the drive chain so I don't know if replacing that is going to be easy and if there are any other issues that will stop it self-propelling.

I'd appreciate any advice regarding sourcing a replacement chain and any info to identify the type of engine and set up that I have. No idea why the engine cover is blue.

I'm very close - like 5 minutes - from the lawnmower museum in Southport so I hope to get some advice there once lockdown relaxes, but any info in the meantime would be good.

 

 

Forums

wristpin Sat, 09/05/2020

The engine is an A98 - not one of my favourites! 

The intermediate chain is F016L03734.  And is 40 pitch including the joining link.  It’s standard BS chain available from on line suppliers or you local bearing / transmission factors 

Clive1962 Sat, 09/05/2020

I remember these from my YTS days, unpacking and putting out into the showroom... Was it 1981 or 1982 ??.   They would have Qualcast/Atco A98, as Wristpin says, at new, with air vane governor.  However, I think I can see the throttle cable arriving vertically at the carb and also later air filter box.?  which makes me wonder if a re engine has happened to A114 with mechanical governor.??  

 

C.

wristpin Sat, 09/05/2020

I remember these from my YTS days, unpacking and putting out into the showroom... Was it 1981 or 1982 ??.   They would have Qualcast/Atco A98, as Wristpin says, at new, with air vane governor.  However, I think I can see the throttle cable arriving vertically at the carb and also later air filter box.?  which makes me wonder if a re engine has happened to A114 with mechanical governor.??  

Could be, but the second generation A98 went over to a mechanical governor  and changed throttle linkage.

Clive1962 Sat, 09/05/2020

Interesting, I hadn't realised that there was a later mechanical gov' A98.   I recall Dellorto air vane governor A98,  with a long cranked link rod to the air vane, but had believed that after that the A98  then ceased and that A114, in latter years, became the universal fitment across the range..

Certainly interesting engines.  smiley

C. 

Moggieman Sat, 09/05/2020

Wristpin: Thanks for the info. Looks like the A98 is used with quite a few mowers of this period. Anything in particular that you don't like about them?

Re the chain. I assume the F0 number is an ATCO part number? I've not had to buy chain before. Do you buy it by the metre or by the actual number of links required? Does 40 pitch mean 40 'links' or does pitch refer to the size? And what does 'BS' refer to? Sorry for all the questions!

Can anyone recommend an online supplier that might be working at the moment please?

Moggieman Sat, 09/05/2020

Clive: this one is 1982. It's got a Jubilee 1922 -1982 sticker under 'de luxe b14'

The throttle cable does indeed come from above. See picture:

 

 

Moggieman Sat, 09/05/2020

It came with a spare engine. Think it's the same but with a Zenith carb. 
 

sorry the pictures are sideways. 

wristpin Sat, 09/05/2020

A98. Compared with the old cast iron engines they vibrated and lacked torque. The Suffolk Iron Foundry cast iron block engines had low down torque and enough weight to make the machines sit better on the ground and  made them more pleasant to handle.

Yes, the F number is the Atco part number, a convenient but expensive way to buy it. Chain usually sold by the metre or even 5 metre rolls  but you may find a local factor or mower shop who will cut you off what you need or even have a decent bit of used chain.  BS, British Standard as opposed to American .

Simply Bearings are a very good on line supplier but I would talk to then on the phone and explain that you need mower chain . I’ve had a couple of misunderstandings with them cos I’m old and talk a different “ language” . All resolved amicably once we were on the same wave length!

I think that your Blue engine with the Dellorto carb will have electronic ignition which is a bonus - until the electronic unit fails -  £££££ !

Moggieman Mon, 11/05/2020

I've had an online 'chat' with Simply Bearings regarding sourcing a replacement intermediate chain, quoting the info you gave me. Not having much joy and they've asked for more information which I'm unable to answer. 

First question they've asked: "Ok so first we start with the pitch of the chain, so is it figure 8 side plates?"

Could anyone help please?

Jonson Mon, 11/05/2020

One of your engines (or both?) could possibly be the a114? Or is there a simple way to differentiate between the later a98 and a114?

Chris G Mon, 11/05/2020

Yes, the A114 being the later one.

It looks like the installed engine has the mechanical governor plate behind the carb and the spare engine looks an earlier air vane governor via flywheel?

Ignition coils as eluded by Wristpin can be spendy, there are 2 types, 2 pole and 3 pole, each needs a specific flywheel match, the later 3 pole are less expensive, circa £20 if I recall. If you are getting a decent spark then leave that concern for another day. 

Good question by Jonson on the a98/a114 difference, had always assumed all mine had been a114..

Sorry can't help on the chains, my several A114s have all been on Punches. Hopefully the in the know will come back on it.

Chris G Mon, 11/05/2020

This -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ajrvuul2oiq66qu/Suffolk%20and%20Wipac%20service%20bulletins0001.pdf?dl=0 provided by Wristpin, I used on my first Suffolk Punch overhaul attempt, it  is really useful for to understand the changes between the 98 and 114 and other changes for an installed engine, link is still live hope you don't mind me posting A.

Took out a spare bare engine without carb / flywheel, externally still can't tell if its a 98 or 114 only stampings are PB 5 on the head and MN3 2N on the base..

Clive1962 Tue, 12/05/2020

The Serpar doc is most interesting...smiley      Do you remember when Serpar got into some sales too with the yellow Ikra stimmers and chainsaws..... 

  The last reference that I had was a July 1985 one which lists as far as A98 model 7A, of 1984, having Dellorto  FHC20-11A, with air vane governor.   The carb is the 11A one with a cranked link rod to the plastic gov vane. This was not very great set up.  I recall these having a rubber damper inserted within the, otherwise similar to previous, governor spring.. 

In the same paperwork I have,  A114,  only then shown in its Model 1a form, as used at first on Atco Commodore, with the round air filter rather than later straight sided round top form, FHC-13A is the lcarb shown.  

So it's great to see the continued story of the engines within the Serpar pages.   It looks like the A98 with air vane and Dellorto was about for 4 years but in mechanical gov was only about for about a year until it ended,   would make it a rare beastie to look out for  smiley

C.

Jonson Tue, 12/05/2020

Your spare engine is probably the original a98 unit from your mower. The engines appear to have swapped cowlings as well.

Jonson Wed, 13/05/2020

I was thinking that the clutches had been swapped over.
The a98 with zenith & air vane governor would fit with a 1982 mower.

Clive1962 Wed, 13/05/2020

That was my thought on seeing the photo of the spare engine.  It looks to be A98, black, with Zenith and exhaust stub with nut that would be correct for it to be the original engine from the mower....but has a cowling and clutch fitted of the colour of the Punch S range, much later.   So I think too that a mechanical governor engine, from a Punch S, be it 98 or 114, has been exchanged.  With the exhaust box and cowling (now painted light blue) from original engine swapped over..

  Important bit is that we hear it runs ok   smileyand would in a way be a natural progression replacement given failure of orignal A98.  

 

C.