Please Help ! Atco 24" HD parts list/manual.

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Bozzy87
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Please Help ! Atco 24" HD parts list/manual.

Hi all,

I have recently been 'donated' an ATCO 24" heavy duty to restore, but am unable to find any parts lists or manuals for said machine. There are plenty of royale b24 manuals but nothing on the older machine. I am wondering would the parts be different? i have got a friend going through his manuals and fiches but i mnot holding my breath. The machine i have has no engine... and no mounting plate for the B&S engine i have waiting to go on it. i am wondering if the plates were generic for a range of machines of that age so i can get a royale b24 one and it might fit? I am also after a cylinder but i know chances of that are slim! if anyone can help me, this club can.. any information would be of great help.

fingers crossed.

wristpin
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The HD 24 goes back a long

The HD 24 goes back a long way, starting with a Villiers engine in the 50s ans 60s then a Tecumseh H50 and 60 and then finally morphing into the Royale with a Briggs or a Tecumseh. The machines with the H50 and 60 are plentiful and there are ample supplies of parts, both new and used . Engine mounting plates are probably  similar but you may have to drill holes to match the engine that you have.

This may be of assistance.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/88rzg8sqlzm1npd/Atco%20B20%2024%2030%20HD%20Te...

 

Bozzy87
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Thanks alot for the

Thanks alot for the information, that is a massive help. Any idea what kind of prefix goes before the part numbers so i can search modern websites for said parts?? i know some are F016, but not sure on mine due to sheer age of the mower.. it seems every atco spares website/shop only lists from the royale b24 onwards, the later version of my model which is a shame.

As for the engine mount, im just not sure if they changed the thickness of the engine mounting plate, which would affect alignment with the clutch. i can drill holes but don't really want to shim it or pack with washers...

The next problem i have is the rubber on the rear roller is cut in places, and bits missing, i wonder if they even ever sold it or people just stripped all rubber off, which would decrease the effectiveness of the foot brake (if it was ever effective). And, whilst trying to get as much info as i can, is the picture in the diagram accurate for decals? its much more a restoration than a preservation.

 

Thanks again.

wristpin
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The mounting plate will be

The mounting plate will be the same or as near as makes no difference.

The F016 prefix will apply. Be aware that if yours is an early chassis it will have BSF threads while the later ones have UNF. Note that the change of thread apples to the bottom blade screws as well.

Rear roller. It is often the foot brake that strips the rubber off especially if a dripping carburettor has softened it. In most situations with a sensible driver the brake was unnecessary and , with the customer's agreement , we would remove them.

New  rubbers were never available . Stripping off the remains of the rubber will cause the machine to sit down at the back . Finding a decent set of rollers from a scrap machine is possibly the way to go but with the aid of some of the modern wonder adhesives it may  just be possible to re- rubber  the rollers using off the roll ribbed floor or load bed matting. Not done an internet search but there may be a specialist firm or two that do a re-rubbering service for a totally disconnected industry , such as conveyor belt rollers.

The Atco Royale still exists as an Allett Westminster** so you could investigate that source of supply but I suspect it's an expensive option and there's the risk that the shaft and bushes in the rollers have gone metric.

I may be able to come up with a better illustrated parts list , is so, I will scan and post it later.

Just found this - no mention of prices though!

http://www.cliftonrubber.co.uk/rubber-rollers/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwoZTNBRCWARI...

** correction. Buckingham

This rather battered parts list may be easier to follow and has the advantage of the equivalent BSF / UNF part numbers and those on the first version of the Royale.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1nknx840sea4id8/Atco%20HD%2024%20etc%20BSF%20U...

If you want to keep these Dropbox files either download them somewhere permanent or print them out as they consume quite a lot of my free dropbox allowance and I wont leave them there for ever.

 

gtc
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Some photos of teh mower in

Some photos of the mower in question would be nice.

Instructions here: http://www.oldlawnmowerclub.co.uk/forum/adding-images

Bozzy87
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Yea, i thought they wouldn't

Yea, i thought they wouldn't produce just the rubber seperately, funnily when i read your reply, i typed it in and was on the site you mentioned. I am awaiting a reply from them and a couple of others in regards to that... the other(cheaper) option is as you said, a ribbed rubber floor matting and a strong impact adhesive or similar.

Garfitts are on the case with a possible bottom blade, and, dare i say it... a new cylinder (old one is usable but not much left on before welds). I could probably get away with a back-lap was sharpened prior to storage it would seem but want to ask questions sooner rather than later.

Thanks for the dropbox PDF's, i have already printed the first and will download and keep the latest one you have sent so i do not use up all your space..

all the part numbers seem to have been superseded with another, (or people use their own part numbers) but gives me diagrams that are much closer than anything else i have seen... with regards to paint, is there any that anybody would recommend?? i always found central spares paint to be good quality but see garfitts do a few including the atco green i need too...

I'm starting to see why it was donated... haha

Is there anyone who has previously done one of these machines that has encountered problems with parts that are obsolete/ difficult to obtain???

@GTC: i will provide some pictures soon, i can appreciate its much easier when you can see the machine im talking about. 

hortimech
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We really need to see

We really need to see pictures of your Atco, the engine mount plate from the earlier Villiers engined HD's is not the same as the later Tecumseh engined HD's. If it had a Tecumseh engine and you want to fit a B&S, I seem to remember it will bolt onto the engine plate, but you will need to lop about an inch of the crank extension.

Bozzy87
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please see attached pictures

please see attached pictures as requested, as you can see i think looking at the clutch coupling i have the BSF version as it has the countersunk screw, is that correct??

wristpin
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Yes, the countersunk screw

Yes, the countersunk screw suggests BSF; could even be left hand thread. There's a half decent rear roller assembly on that auction site for £70. may be worth asking the seller what other parts he has . I doubt if Garfitts quote for a cylinder and bottom blade will leave any change from £200 and that may be optimistic. If you do go for a new cylinder make sure that you get the right one to match your drive components.

Bozzy87
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Yea i have seen that roller

Yea i have seen that roller last night, whilst browsing.. i also managed to find an engine carrier plate for £5 so will see if that solves any problems. Yes garfitts is around £200 for the cylinder, and £35 for bottom blade.. i still haven't stripped the mower so not sure as to the shaft end (internal thread/external thread/external thread with splines).

My local lawnmower shop (where i previously worked)  has quoted £2 per inch for sharpening cylinder, and £1.50 per inch for bottom blade so £84 to just to sharpen. that's with me stripping both down and painting myself. So i will probably just lap it for now and keep checking sites for cylinders.

Am i also right in thinking that there is a plate that bolts on to the side of the engine (that is gone) to cover the engine side of the clutch? ( i have the back clip on plate)

I dont really want to blow the budget out as i dont intend on keeping it, just like returning them to useful items. I have no grass, so its just for the love of it! haha

hortimech
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Yes, there was cover that

Yes, there was cover that bolted to the engine (the engine would have been a Tecumseh), but have you got the coupler that went on the crankshaft ? There should be a rubber coupling to connect to the clutch as well.

Bozzy87
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Yes, i have both the rubber

Yes, i have both the rubber coupling and the engine side clutch hub, as well as the original crankshaft sleeve (larger crankshaft>tapered end)  (the B&S donor crankshaft is smaller so this wont be required? I dont have the engine side clutch cover, can add it to the parts missing.

I am having difficulty with the parts... the BSF part numbers (L_____) all seem to be superseded with new part numbers that i cant find. I have tried the F016 (modern atco suffix) with no luck.. any ideas what the original part numbers were replaced with? I don't want to be buying frame bolts with different part numbers as i will probably find they are not BSF but UNF or even metric..

I am starting to wonder if the 3.5HP will be enough for it, as originally i think they were 6hp 220cc engines?

wristpin
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Think that it will struggle

Think that it will struggle with only 3.5hp. And that engine will have a smaller diameter shaft than the original Tecumseh . The flanged plate that fixes to the side of the engine to support the clutch cover  is illustrated in the parts lists that I posted.

Not sure why you are having problems with the part numbers as they are all ok and were not superseded during Atco production other than the F016 prefix during Bosch's ownership of the brand. 

Bozzy87
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Agreed, especially with the

Agreed, especially with the trailing seat i tihnk a 5-6hp is required. Back to the drawing board! Yes the briggs engine has a smaller crankshaft, strangely enough seems to fit the clutch hub without the sleeve though..

Thanks again for the parts list, it is the best that i have found by far. On the list it has it as part no. L12799, i have tried both with and without the bosch F016 prefix, and get no answers, maybe they stopped making that particular part after the 'older' HD and royale models. Some i am getting results for which is good, some progress!

Maybe a donor machine might be the answer...

wristpin
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For the engine side clutch

For the engine side clutch cover endplate try F016101641 but this may refer to one that fits whatever the current engine is on the Allett / Turfmech Buckingham


Bozzy87
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OK, thanks a lot for your

OK, thanks a lot for your help... can i ask how you managed to transpose the number from the parts list to the one you mention?

It appears the buckinghams currently use a honda engine so im hoping the engine bolts would match up, as i plan to use a donor honda engine instead of the underpowered Briggs. Fingers crossed!

hortimech
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You have a problem, the

You have a problem, the crankshaft hub you have seems to have come from an earlier 24" Atco, the Tecumseh engine had a short parallel 3/4" diameter crankshaft. It sounds like it came from a Villiers 150 lightweight, except for the fact that  they had a large red flywheel. You need a 5 or 6 HP engine, the 3.5 HP will not be large enough and if it has a 5/8" dia crankshaft, it might not be 3.5 HP anyway. 

Bozzy87
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I will have to check when i

I will have to check when i get time and see what size i have. I was just given a spare engine when they dropped of the mower... probably thinking all engines will fit. Now, speaking of any engine, an opportunity has presented itself to get hold of an 8hp briggs. Would this be detrimental to the clutch etc if fitted?? Im not trying to pull wheelies, but its free.. and almost new, but dont want to damage anything.

wristpin
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During the production life of

During the production life of that machine, possibly when they switched from the H50 to the H60 Tecumseh  they switched to  heavier duty duty primary and secondary chains. Same pitch etc but thicker links . May be a clue there! Otherwise, get the rule and calipers out. The shape of the 8HP lump, position of fuel tank etc.may be an issue. At one time we used to re-engine 24s with a Kohler - possibly on special offer! - and I remember having to raise the rear handle bar mounting points by an inch or two to get clearance.

I

hortimech
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I doubt if the 8 HP B&S will

I doubt if the 8 HP B&S will fit, the mount is larger, it is physically a bigger engine and it probably has a 1" diameter crankshaft. I think the Kohler that Wristpin fitted would have been a K91T, this was a 3.5 HP engine and so was probably a bit underpowered, especially if a trailer seat was fitted. Atco did use a Kohler engine at one time, but this was a K101T 4 HP and was only fitted to a 20" machine. You need to find a 5 HP engine with a standard 3/4" diameter crankshaft. 

wristpin
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The Kohlers that we were

The Kohlers that we were fitting were model CH67 6hp - well up to the job. In 1997 they were retailing at £275 + vat

Bozzy87
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All seem rather expensive 5

All seem rather expensive 5-6HP is looking at around £130 second hand.. New is around £350 (unless chinese copy), is it worth it??? what would the mower sell for once refurbished?? I don't really want to plough money into something that wont get any return, as i dont plan to keep it. Maybe best left as a donor machine/stripped for parts for better examples? 

gtc
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Maybe best left as a donor

Maybe best left as a donor machine/stripped for parts for better examples?

That's my feeling in this case.

 

Bozzy87
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i think i will keep it for a

i think i will keep it for a while and see if any engines turn up... or it  might appear under the Christmas tree in a few months :)

 

I have already sourced an engine plate and replacement cylinder so im beyond the give up point..

Bozzy87
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ATCO HD 24 update. I have

ATCO HD 24 update. I have managed to source an engine!! just happens to be a 5.5 HP honda GX160.. and got the replacement cylinder and engine plate, all good..!

 

will post updates when i have time to get it all stripped etc.... any ideas where is best to get an original atco colour paint? and decals etc for this machine?

 

thanks...

hortimech
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You will either have to

You will either have to remove the Atco fuel tank or the Honda one, mostly (if not always) the Atco one was removed. You will also have to shorten the crankshaft PTO.

From memory, the engine should bolt direct to the original mount plate.