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Collection, Preservation and Display of Old Lawn Mowers

Suffolk Super Punch Cylinder

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Hi all,

First post from a newbie (lawnmowers anyway).

I 'inherited' a 14" Super Punch some years ago and it has sat in my garage since then awaiting some tlc to get it back to working order.

Last week that day finally came and on first inspection the unit appeared in reasonable condition. Engine turns easily, spark plug a bit sooty and some light rust but no obvious damage; Still lots of dried grass on the mower from its last use!  I have been looking at numerous posts and haven't found this issue so I advice would be appreciated.

The cylinder blades were a little rusty and the cylinder rotated, albeit a little stiffly.  The drive chain and sprockets appear to be well greased but the tensioner was very loose.  I thought to try lapping the cylinder to see if I could sharpen the blades, which look in good condition if not a little rough.  
To cut a long story short, when rotating the cylinder the slack chain becomes less slack and on spinning the cylinder with a drill the driven sprocket can be seen to oscillate.  This movement can also be seen on the cylinder at the driven end and will explain my inability to set a consistent blade gap. At its extreme, I estimate there is a gap of 1mm (apologies for swearing) between the blade and the cutter at the drive end.

Before I go and buy a replacement cylinder and bearings, I am wondering if there is something I need to look at or check, please?

Also, whilst I have the original manual, it does not give the part numbers seen in other articles.  Is there a cross-reference anywhere, please?

Thanks for any assistance,

With kind regards,

Andy Thomas

 

Forums

wristpin Mon, 19/04/2021

You are possibly being a little bit too particular for the subject matter , remove the chain and turn the cylinder. If it’s still stiff you may have a bearing  issue. If it rotates freely observe the end of the shaft and see how much wander it has , then try adjusting it down to the bottom blade . If it meets all the way along, refit the chain with a little bit of slack at its tightest point. Rotate again and see if the blade nip is maintained . If so you should be ok; if not, it’s dismantling time.

AndeThomas Mon, 19/04/2021

Hi Wristpin.  Many thanks for the response.  I was just concerned I may have unintentionally cocked up something in the bearing alignment during my efforts to set the blade.  
Will remove the chain and try again but I suspect that dismantling is on the horizon!

Regards

Andy

 

AndeThomas Mon, 19/04/2021

HI Wristpin,

I think I may have found the problem ......

Suffolk Super Punch bearings

What remains of the drive end is on the right!

Any thoughts / advice on replacements please? These are both shown in the exploded diagram as parts L.2968

Thank you.

Andy T

wristpin Mon, 19/04/2021

Cheap as chips as the saying goes.

Jon Cruse at the Hailsham Mower Centre should be able to supply. When you get the new ones there’s a right and wrong way to fit them. The balls face outwards into the cups. Assembled the wrong way round and they will be stiff.

DJD Tue, 20/04/2021

Could I just comment here? So many times I've seen folk replace old bearing races and cones too, some even buy the ally block too and fit it, but why does no one mention the separate cups? I always replaced the six items, 2 cups, 2 cones and two races, but never the complete ally blocks holding the cups, just too expensive that way I thought, it takes only a hammer and punch to get the old cups out, but put the old ones back and waste all your time, trouble and effort, plus your money.

wristpin Wed, 21/04/2021

 I always replaced the six items, 2 cups, 2 cones and two races, but never the complete ally blocks holding the 

Things may have changed but my records show that the cups were already obsolete when I retired in 2012. Possibly someone such as Jon Cruse in Hailsham , may still have old stock or even a supply from whatever firm originally made them.

My own experience was that very few cones and cups failed from fair wear and tear but from complete lack of care - cylinders running with grass, wire, nylon net etc wound round their shafts and machines left outside etc. The major cause of failed races was that during routine maintenance or repair they had been assembled the wrong way round - balls inward, meaning that the race cage was bing dragged round the inside of the cup rather than rolling round as it should.

Yes, the hardening on cones and cups could fail but to change them as a matter of course when they have passed visual inspection would not make  one many friends among customers. After all, “ it’s a lawnmower, not the Space Shuttle”.

DJD Wed, 21/04/2021

One of my brothers was a lifetime washing machine engineer, (worked for four different companies altogether) to change the two tapered roller bearings on the inner tub shaft on some rusted and worn away condition machines, he would need hours more time than the company allowed to do it properly, his 'team leader' actually advised my brother to leave the old outer 'shell'  on the drum, but replace the inner part on the shaft that includes the new rollers. In other words, put half a new bearing in and keep the old worn out part that's so hard to get to or remove! My brother was conscientious and at first refused, often working late at night in his own time to finish doing the job correctly. He was eventually made redundant, the next year his old firm were nationally advertising for new engineers! I imagine they were soon taught to do 'half a job is better than none!' We ought to do what our conscience tells us, I've always done my best to aspire to that ideal.

No criticism or disrespect intended here, this simply felt like a good opportunity to show how things constantly changed in other people's jobs and quality started to go out the window in so many other unrelated industries, twenty or more years ago in fact.

wristpin Fri, 23/04/2021

Wristpin, I take it you are a Taryl fan?

Yes, look past the Tom foolery and the man knows what he’s doing in a down to earth practical manner - unlike most YouTube posters who are determined to impart their new found ” knowledge”  (or lack of) on the unsuspecting public.

DJD Fri, 23/04/2021

Me too, I'd rather see less of the messing about and false teeth etc. but he does things his own way. Very informative.

DJD Mon, 26/04/2021

Got out all my Suffolk etc bearings but was unable to finds the cups I thought I still had a few of.

The two bare ones are old second hand I think, waiting for new cups. The other is a new complete assy.

There are two sizes of races here, no doubt the smaller ones go on electric Panthers etc.

Something like those cups eventually turned up.

But they are much too small, it appears my memory is not what it was, sorry, I don't have what I thought I had plenty of.

DJD Thu, 29/04/2021

I found these four worn out old cups today, not sure just why I kept them, just as a reminder maybe.

This is about the best of the four. Not sure if want to re-fit it to a machine for my own use though.

The outsides do look better for a session on the wire wheel, but it's not the outsides that do the work!

The best pair of the four and these too have traces of wear.

The other pair are way beyond use.

The complete assy. does include a felt seal, which handily also keeps the race from falling out, but this may be a Panther one, I didn't do any measuring to be sure.

I seem to have about a half dozen new greased up seals if anyone is in need.

As wristpin has stated, the ball bearings sit down touching the cups, as here, the other way around there will be noises and tightness possibly but no bearing support as such.

One on the left is incorrect.

Race correctly installed then a new cone bearing is offered up, this is what you need to see.

This way is incorrect. But then, you won't generally see this view, unless you have removed the cups firstly.

Roughly 1.5 inches across, these are Suffolk/Qualcast/Bosch items.

I think this is a Panther etc.type item, smaller in width.

I have a couple of packs of these too if anyone needs a set.