Suffolk super punch 17"

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Lolium_perenne
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Suffolk super punch 17"

Hello, new member from Sweden here!

I recently bought 2 Suffolk Super Punch 17" for 1500 SEK (about 131£). I hope to make atleast one of them work and somewhat restored to its former glory.

I like English mowers, especially cylinders. We use newer 5 unit mowers at work on football pitches (Ransomes, Hayter) but I always wanted a classic mower at home.

A couple of questions about the Suffolk mowers;

1. Can I get some assistance in determing the year of manufacturing and version? I can post images of both machines and what I know.

2. Looked around for parts, some generic stuff on Ebay like gaskets and carburators. I think I will make my own gaskets since its not so complicated, I reckon it will be harder to replace other parts made solely for these mowers. Any other store that ship to sweden? Might need new bottomblade for example.

3. About colors. I have read the section about colors on the site but still think its hard to know which Green to get. I think these are original paint(?), The cylinder is supposed to be green ? If someone have a RAL code on a good looking green and orange id be happy to know. Looked at several different, i think Deutz-fahr green is pretty ok? Maybe too yellow.

* Super Punch No1

I think the metalplate says model 1A. Got wooden rollers and split drive.

Super Punch No2

Decal says model No 2A. 

 

Have a great evening!

Regards,

Hannes

 

 

 

 

 

wristpin
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Welcome,

Welcome,

Good solid simple machines. Lots of parts including new bottom blades available over here so other than postage costs there shouldn’t be any difficulties. 

You have two different model year versions, corrugated alloy and plain steel rear roller . I’ll have a look at some old parts lists and see if there are some model year break points. Early ones had 75cc engines and later ones 98cc - it’s on the sticker on the engine cowling.

I’m just doing an overhaul on one  - right now, and it had an original paint green cutting cylinder.  I’ve used a John Deere green aerosol to paint it as it  was available,  but I got told off by another member for using it on another machine a while back, but this machine is a worker, not a poser!

 

 

 

Clive1962
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It is very interesting to

It is very interesting to read of these mowers and where they are around the world.

 British mowers of this time really did span the globe...with sometimes a few subtle modifications to suit the country of sale and the machinery rules of that country.

A few years ago I got unwittingly involved with answering enquiries about Suffolk/Qualcast mowers, all started by me commenting, on another forum, the make of an engine on a Merry Tiller.  75g14, I happily typed and then the search engines got to work and over a couple of years enquiries came in from all around the world.  It was amazing, but whilst fun and a challenge, as life threw in a few spanners I had to step back.  I was always concerned that if a instruction for a job had a step missed out it could all end in tears..or worse..  I used to add a little disclaimer to my typing warning of the danger of the spinning blades, for instance when all attention was being focussed on tuning a carb... and if in any doubt of abilities to consult a local machinery agent...

One day I mentioned the dangers of the spinning blades  in my last line of typing...but in reply the op replied not to worry as he was the chief engineering officer of the Swedish Joint Forces Helicopter Command....so maybe he was quite versed with the spinning blades :) and I need not have worried.! 

 

All the very best with this project...these days I do watch from a distance but really do enjoy reading of finds and progress.

 

C.

Lolium_perenne
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Thank you!

Thank you!

Interesting! Cant seem to find anyting about CC on the cowl. The "No2" mower sticker has an enginenumber (986-14), looks like this:

The "No1" mower got a plate instead on the cowl, enginenumber "98 G 14". Looks like this:

Hehe ok, JD green might not be exactly original but it would work. Read in another thread about paint and such, someone wanted to keep the mowers intact and as original as possible. As you mentioned, I intend to use them and I think to preserv the metal ill go for a full repaint. Lasts longer and keeps the rust away!

We have some good machinepaints here called "Esbjerg maskinemalj" with a lot of colours to choose from.

// Hannes

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Interesting story Clive about

Interesting story Clive about the Swede!

I see a lot of Atco and Suffolk mowers here in Sweden. Mostly this era. 

There was a Swedish made cylinder mower in the fifties called Clio (made in Malmö) that is very common to find here. I dont know much about them but they look pretty similar to Suffolk and other brittish mowers. I would not be surprised if they were inspired by English brands.

Thanks, and regards!

Hannes.

Clive1962
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Both will be 98cc    Engine

Both will be 98cc    Engine type is a Suffolk 98G14, model no.1a   and the other 98G14 model no2a

There was another model no.3 of 98G14 engine which had a changed engine block with a different valve chest breather...and later still the mower chassis type ended its days with I believe a few with the 98cc aluminium A98 engine.

The very early mowers of this type had the 75cc,  75G14 engine

 

C.

wristpin
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 Can I get some assistance in

 Can I get some assistance in determing the year of manufacturing and version? I can post images of both machines and what I know.

A flick through the parts book suggests that the corrugated alloy roller makes that one  a 1967 Series V or 1968 V1. No other versions are shown with that style of roller.

The plain steel design was used both before and after the alloy roller but as you have the 98cc engine I would say that it’s a 1985**(see correction) Series V1. A deciding factor will only be apparent if or when you rebuild or dismantle the roller. The early units had a proper bevel and pinion differential but the later ones had a spring loaded sleeve arrangement as used on the later Atco De Luxe machines.

** Edit. It’s been brought to my attention that there is something askew with that date. Definitely a senior moment. 1968 would be more likely for a SeriesV1 pr 1967 for a Series V. Apologies.

wristpin
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There was a Swedish made cylinder mower in the fifties called Clio (made in Malmö) that is very common to find here

Back in the 1970s they were reasonably common over here, a lot being used by local authorities .  Due to their high revving two- stroke engines, most used ones were snapped up by the lawnmower racing fraternity .  I doubt if any survived in the UK, I can’t even find a picture of one. 

Clive1962
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The Clio is one I'm not

The Clio is one I'm not familiar with at all, would love to see a photo :)

I found a service bulletin of Nov 1975 which lists the ratchet style steel roller as being now fitted  with no parts interchangeable between the two types but complete roller units interchangeable.

 Whilst on YTS training at local machinery agent in Lincolnshire in 1981  I recall sales selling  an aluminium engined Punch.  It was in the later lighter green with A98 aluminium engine and would have been known by then as the Punch 43 but was still at that point in time the old cast, heavy chassis.

By 1982 this chassis type was replaced by the Punch 43DL which was effectively the old Super Colt 12", Super Punch14" chassis stretched out to become a 17" cut Punch 43DL.   So heavy, not.!.. that you could almost lift it with one hand.   A chassis stretch a little too far, perhaps....

 

C.

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Something like this maybe...

Something like this maybe...

Original link below.

http://chainsawcollectors.se/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=9751

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Clive1962
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Thank you for posting the

Thank you for posting the photo...it really made me look at the drive cover...the way Clio is applied looked so similar to how I write my signature.!  ;)

C.

 

 

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Yes, thats a Clio Royal i

Yes, thats a Clio Royal i believe. The company that made them was motor-fleron AB. Made a 2-wheel tractor aswell with exchangable units (cylindermower, rotomower, snowblower etc). A guy at work told me about them, apparently all 2-stroke like mentioned above! Also found some really fanatic Clio-loving swedes on the internet!

Had some time today to look at my Suffolk mowers. Removed the motor, drained the oil (some white lumps in there)… removed the head and cleaned away the old gasket. Looks alright to me, for a engine this old?

A little rust in the top of the cylinder, never honed one before but dont think I will bother. Unless im convinced!

/ Hannes

wristpin
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Lower the piston, stuff the

Lower the piston, stuff the bore with sticky rag and wipe around the top with a bit of 120 grit sand paper ( not emery). Worth taking the sump off and washing it out; your new oil will stay cleaner longer. Going to have a look at the valves?

 

DJD
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Nice heavy machine, I have a

Nice heavy machine, I have a very nice conditioned handbook for one of these if you're interested.

Lolium_perenne
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Lower the piston, stuff the

Lower the piston, stuff the bore with sticky rag and wipe around the top with a bit of 120 grit sand paper ( not emery). Worth taking the sump off and washing it out; your new oil will stay cleaner longer. Going to have a look at the valves?

Good, will do! Removed sump, needs a good clean... 

Had a look at the valves. See some rusty goo below the intake valve. Might need to remove them to clean properly? Cant really see the seats otherwise. 

// Hannes

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Nice heavy machine, I have a

Nice heavy machine, I have a very nice conditioned handbook for one of these if you're interested.

Yes, sure. From what year and for which model?

// Hannes

DJD
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(No subject)

Clive1997
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Suggest you look here https:/

Suggest you look here https://www.oldlawnmowerclub.co.uk/technical/opman/list we have many manuals available

wristpin
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Had a look at the valves. See

Had a look at the valves. See some rusty goo below the intake valve. Might need to remove them to clean properly? Cant really see the seats otherwise. 

Definitely remove them for a proper inspection of both the valves and the seats.

Lolium_perenne
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Operating/maintenance manual

Operating/maintenance manual looks great, Definitely interested. 

TimJ
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G'day all,

G'day all,
This has been an interesting read so far. I am also starting my first restoration of a Suffolk Super Punch but the smaller  75G14-24A.
Just wondering if anyone knew where to buy parts for these types of mowers? I am looking at getting a new cylinder blade and lower blade (Sorry for incorrect names). I think the cylinder i have had been lowered so many times over the years than there isnt much left on it. 
I will be looking to get some items shipped over to here in Australia. Looks like these mowers got sent all over the world. 

Thanks all and will stay invested in this post for more good reading.
Cheers,

Tim

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On this side of the world,

On this side of the world, used and even new old stock parts will be relatively easy to find. The UK company, Garffitts, will probably be able to supply a bottom blade / bed knife. They may be prepared to make a new cutting cylinder - at a price. It may be better to look for a donor machine with a better cylinder. 

EDIT. Just had a look at a Garfitts catalogue and the 17" BedKnife / Bottom blade is part number G14002, lipped with seven screw holes. 

It still shows a cutting cylinder pt no G72091, 5 blade , "old style, non symmetrical ends" ie long shaft at the drive end.

 

 

Clive1962
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His 

 

I'm back to my quiet time pondering again.!  With ref to worldwide sales of these machines.

  I remember seeing the name Admiral 17" listed in some old Qualcast/Suffolk service literature. It was with ref cylinder mowers rather than later re use of the name on an Atco rotary mower.

It also listed Super 14  which I assume was the Super Punch 14", when sold overseas.? 

Where and when was the Super Punch17" chassis sold as the Qualcast Admiral 17".?   I have seen a photo online that shows this chassis type with a lovely lifebelt transfer on the chaincase cover.

Was this just to sell a Qualcast range as well as a Suffolk or was it in a location in the world where Qualcast was the prefered brand name and/or where the name Punch be lost in translation.?  We know it to be a reliable draft horse..but because of the English language...it could be a Punch-on the nose, a parallel pin-Punch, Punch-to drink, etc, etc.

C.

TimJ
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Thanks for the info Wristpin,

Thanks for the info Wristpin, its great to see even something close being stocked somewhere in the world. There is nothing over here as far as I can tell, nothing anymore anyhow. These mowers do turn up from time to time but are all in similar condition and not surprising really, they have had a long life. A mower today wouldnt last even one quarter of the lifetime these beauties have. Ill get in touch with your recommendations and see what they can do. Really appreciate it.

Thanks for the reply Clive, not sure about the name Admiral sorry. The model I have looks pretty well the same as ive seen supplied in the UK though ill post up some image of it for reference. She has definitely seen some better days. The blades on the cylinder have been from the original position so its not able to get a consistent cut on the bed knife. I run up and down the yard leaving the lawn looking like a zebra!
Speaking of horses, i do like to think it was named after the draft horse, despite the hard life my machine looks to have had, the engine - once cleaned and serviced runs a treat. Reckon she has many more years left in her yet. Just laid down some Tif Tuf Bermuda and its in dire need of a reel cut. The rotary just doesnt do it justice.

Thanks again guys and look forward to reading more in this post about these little beauts.

Cheers from the other side of the world,

Tim

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I hope that you find Garfitts

I hope that you find Garfitts useful, but a new cylinder will be a big lump when it comes to carriage charges.  Back in the day it was quite common to reblade cylinders, particularly on larger machines in commercial use; older Dennis machines even had bolt on blades. Atco were listing new blades ( also called spirals) for their domestic machines as late as the late 1970s ; possibly about the time when labour costs or lack of skilled labour in the repair shops made it more attractive to just supply a complete new cylinder.

Do keep us posted .

 

villiers98
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 Timj  - try outdoorking

 Timj  - try outdoorking forum  ( www.outdoorking.com/forum/ ) from Australia as there is often useful info under forums> repairs and maintenance>walk behind lawnmower frames> reel lawnmower frames . Also under the engine section. Can't work out why I can't copy and paste the web address.Someone may be able to help you with a less worn cylinder closer to home .

 Clive -  the very last iron chassis Punch Professional  17inch did have the black aluminium A98 engine ( and was all the worst for doing so ) and was painted Suffolk Super Punch lighter green. I wonder if the 43DL Super Punch was the ordinary cut model  by then with the Professional model continuing for a short while. Only seen one , and I have it.    The name Qualcast Admiral was used for export markets, and I thought this included Australia. Certainly on the forum above there are Super Punches with the Qualcast name on.

As Wristpin said the early 17 Punch had the 75g14 engine mounted in the middle of the mower rather than to the right. These had no recoil starter, 'margerine tub' shape petrol tank and different cowl.

If you go to   www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/128448   there is a 1962 film ' Visit to a Suffolk Iron Foundry ' filmed at SIF Stowmarket . At 9.13 in the film there is an example of an export model  mower - note tank and handlebars . There are a couple of Ransomes films worth watching, also many films of East Anglian Life in general.

villiers98
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Useful to know about the

Wristpin - ref your post of 18.1.2021 its useful to know about the series V and V1, but is 1985 a typo?  If still made then surely it would be an alloy engine ?  The early pre recoil start one I have does have the alloy corrugated roller and I'd guess is late fifties but the 2A 98g14 engined one has the plain steel roller.  You never know how original they are but the early one I ve had since 1987 and seemed not to have been messed with.

wristpin
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As Wristpin said the early 17 Punch had the 75g14 engine mounted in the middle of the mower rather than to the right. These had no recoil starter, 'margerine tub' shape petrol tank and different cowl.

Can of worms time!!

The 75cc 17” that’s apart on my bench at present has the engine on the right with a recoil and kidney tank,  but I’ve got series 1,2 and 3 “cast iron 14” machines with rope wrap starter pulleys and Marge tub tanks, Also early Zenith carbs with bango fuel inlets. I have got an earlyish 17” Professional that I restored a few years ago but it’s up on some pallet racking with a bin bag over it and a lot of other stuff between it and the door . Somewhere in the photo library I’ve got an image of it and others lined up on the lawn so I’ll have a look tomorrow.

2nd post . 1985, may be a typo or Specsaver but I’ll go back to the source document and have another look.

wristpin
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Wristpin - ref your post of

Wristpin - ref your post of 18.1.2021 its useful to know about the series V and V1, but is 1985 a typo?  If still made then surely it would be an alloy engine ?  The early pre recoil start one I have does have the alloy corrugated roller and I'd guess is late fifties but the 2A 98g14 engined one has the plain steel roller.  You never know how original they are but the early one I ve had since 1987 and seemed not to have been messed with.

Well, not sure what went wrong there but wrong it is.  I hope that the attached may make amends.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l523juf9np6f1kj/Suffolk%20cast%20iron%20chassi...

 

 

 

Clive1962
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Lovely line up in the photo.

Lovely line up in the photo.  :)

..and then to add to my ponderings...the 75G14 1C Auto Swift engine drawing grabbed my attention..not one I have ever seen.

Looks to have an ungoverned, non constant speed, carb set up .?  like was the case in many applications of the day I suppose.  Leaving the control fully to the hand on the throttle.

 

C.

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https://www.dropbox.com/s

 

Lovely! What models / years represented in the picture?

/ Hannes

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The Colt at the left hand end

The Colt at the left hand end and the two square tanked 14” Punches are 1950s. If you look at the square tank ones you will see that one does not have the exterior dog clutch knob on the rear roller . That one has a free wheeling roller sprocket which makes it an early 50s Series 1. I had no idea of that when I bought it.  The Professional at the right hand end is probably late 60s and had spent its last 20 years in the cellar of a closed pub and came to light when the builders moved in to redevelop it. It was just advertised on eBay as  Suffolk Mower and from the images I didn’t spot that it was a Pro until I collected it ; even better it had the unique to the Pro, drip tray under the air filter, there to prevent any fuel burns on bowling greens and cricket wickets . I’d never seen one and they are not shown on the illustrated parts list; just a foot note at the end of the parts listing.

 

 

DJD
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I sent an email to yours

Lolium, I sent an email to yours about the manual a few days ago, but it came back as 'undelivered', maybe you haven't spelled it quite correctly?

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If anyone has manuals that

If anyone has manuals that they are willing to share but are not available on the website please send me a copy and I can post for everyone to access.

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Admin. I'll see what I have.

Admin. I'll see what I have.

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Not much time right now to

Not much time right now to work on the mowers, work and moving to a new house.

Ordered some new paint, think the colours will work. Amazon green and a red-orange. 

Worked on the engine a bit yesterday, removed the valves. A bit of carbon buildup there, mostly on exhaust. 

​​

Hope for some time in the weekend. Slow process but Im not in a hurry!

/ Hannes

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Looks like yours is about in

Looks like yours is about in the same state as the one that I'm working on.

As removed, very coked exhaust

 

After a clean up, revealing pitting on the exhaust valve

 

After a session on the re-facer, still some pitting left but reluctant to go deeper as the margin is already thinner than "book"

 

However the seat was not badly pitted and cleaned up with a light skim.

 

 

Just needing a light lapping with fine paste.

 

Finished valves. Ideally the contact patch would be nearer the centre of the face which could be achieved using the 30 and 75 degree seat cutters, but would loose a lot of metal doing it . Adequate for the job in hand!